Standard Searhkey naming

[Sarrene]

Hello, this is a subject that has been brought up a few times, but one I think is worth looking at again.

Creating a unified standard naming system for the searchkeys for all hotbars and macro.

Now first, the reason behind this. I know that many people love all the ui's that we have created over the last few years, both in beta and live. However, with so many using custom searchkey names, it makes it very difficult for anyone to switch UI's, have someone else log onto their account/character, GM's logging in to fix a problem, etc. When any of these things happen, the players loose their custom Macros.

My proposal, and one that has been discussed before, is coming up with a unified and standard for naming these searchkeys. This way, players will not loose their macros when switching UI's or accessing from another computer, or friends/family logging on when they have a different UI.

In addition.. IF we can come up with a standard for the searchkey names, we might be able to get (or at least open up discussion) with SOE to add in a set of extra searchkeys. This would be the second step once we can set up a standard based on the default. Granted this second step is more a wish list, but it could happen... IF we set up a standard.

By default the Hotbars are named as the following...

searchKey="hotkeys_left0"
searchKey="hotkeys_left1"
searchKey="hotkey_left1"
searchKey="hotkey_left2"
searchKey="hotkeys_rightv0"
searchKey="hotkeys_rightv1"

Now, if we could expand on that, we could set up a standard naming system that would follow that pattern.. so we would then have...

searchKey="hotkeys_left0"
searchKey="hotkeys_left1"
searchKey="hotkeys_left2"
searchKey="hotkeys_left3"
searchKey="hotkeys_rightv0"
searchKey="hotkeys_rightv1"
searchKey="hotkeys_rightv2"
searchKey="hotkeys_rightv3"

We can expand on that as well. Since many of us have additional hotbars that are not included in the standard horizontal or vertical layout. We have hotbars that extend out to G15, Healer Helper (or any variance of), Crafting.. and Im sure I am missing a few others.

Mind you, the following are only examples and not what they should be named. This is only to get a discussion set up and started. We could easily name them something as simple as the below for Group Healer bars

searchKey="hotkeys_cust01"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust02"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust03"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust04"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust05"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust06"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust07"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust08"

For the G15, Faded Hotbars and other similar we could set up something on the same lines but just add a new numerical value to it. An example would be...

searchKey="hotkeys_cust001"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust002"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust003"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust004"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust005"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust006"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust007"
searchKey="hotkeys_cust008"

Now, the nice thing about this is it would benefit the players greatly! Here are the pros and cons I see to us setting up a Standard for the naming of hotbar searchkeys...

Pros:
1) Enable players NOT to lose their macors and skills when accessing their account from another computer
1) Enable players to NOT loose their macros and skills when friends or family log onto their account
3) No conflict between all the different custom UI's.. Players could switch between them, try out new ones, or switch based on their character and needs with out loosing macros and skills
4) Possibility of SOE (on a prayer) to set up additional searchkeys on the server so we do not loose out when GM's access characters to fix issues.
Cons:
1) a bit of work to change over the names of searchkeys (about 30 minutes to 1 hour)
2) would require players to udpate their hotbar skills and macros (one last time)

The last Con can be bothersome perhaps to a few players, but who has not lost their macors when they had to reload the game, or had a Gm get on to fix a problem, or a friend or family member has logged on their account?
I think Con#2 is not that bad over all if it will prevent players from loosing their Macros in the future.

That is it from me right now.. let me know what you all think, and if you have any ideas or would like to set up a standard naming system for the searchkeys, please please post up and let us know what you think and your ideas.

Peace,
Sarrene'

[Taldaas]

As a user and not a developer I think this is a wonderful idea. I can't count the number of times I have swapped between UI mods and had to set things up all over again.

The only suggestion I would have is around your naming convention.

You appear to be going the route of a purely numerical path. Based on how the original hotkeys were set up with the word left or right as part of the searchkey I would probably follow the same kind of example:

searchKey="hotkeys_N520"
searchKey="hotkeys_N521"
searchKey="hotkey_G150"
searchKey="hotkey_G151"
searchKey="hotkeys_expanding0"
searchKey="hotkeys_expanding1"

etc.

[Sarrene]

Aye, I was thinking something like that as well. However, I am also trying to think of something that would easy enough for the devs themselves.. something that we can take to them once we are all unified.. and something they will not say "no" to.

But those are good! Though I would expand a bit yet with the numerical aspect as well. Leaving it open to be able to expand on diffrent ones. The thing with having specific names like that means that it would again rely on all the custom ui's having the same exact bars. This way if we keep it general.. then we would not loose the hotkeys.. lets say if we went to a Custom UI that did not have the expanding hotbars or N5.

This way if they were named something like I had up top, then we would still have those macros no matter what ui we switched to.. or family or friends or GM's. Not sure I made any sence there.


If we can get a discussion going with the devs, or at least interested in this topic.. what ideas do you have that would still follow the default pattern? Or do you think it would not matter?

Peace,
Sarrene'

[Dravid]

I had a chat with you on this yesterday. I love this idea for sure.

I would love to see if I can hack Manic to work with this.

[techywarrior]

I had heard from people that when the GM logged their characters on they no longer lost their hotkeys. I am pretty sure a GM had to log on my account recently to fix a quest bug and my hotkeys didn't disapear either.

The reason I am hesitent about this is if the GM no longer wipes the hotkeys when they log on the account then the only people we are helping with this are those who swap between UI components or full UIs often. I would imagine that the number of people who do this is much less then those who pick a UI and stick with it.

I would really hate to cause everyone to redo their hotkeys for those who switch them often.

[morbatail]

It still happens a lot for people to include myself and my lovely wife Sarrene. Some of this has to do with our darling children logging into our accounts and not using the same UI or a older version (remember Teens know everything and don't have to do things like update).


Sarr has a lot of macros that she uses for Roleplay both adventuring and crafting and I use quite a few for roleplay especially on my Halfling. It would be nice not to loose them if I ever have to have a GM or my children again.


A standard is good also in that ideas can be shared more easily with each other. The player made UI's are made by the players for the love of the game and to try to make it better for those who wish to use them. Custom, Drox, Darker2.0, DarkerScrolls and more are all great UI's and with a standard it would help the community of UI modders be able to make the changes easier and incorperate the best of all worlds.

[Sarrene]

Originally Posted by techywarrior

I had heard from people that when the GM logged their characters on they no longer lost their hotkeys. I am pretty sure a GM had to log on my account recently to fix a quest bug and my hotkeys didn't disapear either.

The reason I am hesitent about this is if the GM no longer wipes the hotkeys when they log on the account then the only people we are helping with this are those who swap between UI components or full UIs often. I would imagine that the number of people who do this is much less then those who pick a UI and stick with it.

I would really hate to cause everyone to redo their hotkeys for those who switch them often.

I have still heard of this happening yet. Though not as often. However it is still an issue for some.

On the other issue.. i think this is an over all worth while venture to think about seriously. You do not think it effects many people over all, yet I have to differe on this point.

1) I know of several in my guild alone (probably a good 1/4 of them) that use or want to use multiple UI's. Yours is one of them included. However because they cannot switch, they tend to stay with one ui right now. Most of my guild is using one of the Darker, though would like to use Core or Drox for raiding. This would solve these problems.

2) There is also the issue of the many many people that use CustomUI. CustomUI is very popular from what i ahve seen on the forums, in guild, in game (Craft, Diplo and alliance chats). This will help resolve some issues they are having

3) There are many couples that play the game, there are many families as well. Mine included. I would venture to say that close to 60% of our guild are couples and families. Quite often the wife does not like the same ui the husband has, or the kids or any other combination. I know also they do swap and share accounts. This would resolve that issue as well.

4) Friends often share accounts.. be it for helping out, buffs, mules, or any other many veriety of reasions. The same applies to the above number 3. And would save people from having to load their hotbars again and again.. even if it is just one character multiple times.

Those are the four main reasions i can think of. Sad thing is.. a few of us tried to get this same thing set up last year and even back in beta. I know Sokol and I had posted about it a few times. Sadly, it was always the same people that had reasions not to come up with a unified naming system for search keys.

I also posted this up on the soe forums as well to get other peoples opnions and thoughts about it. I think it would be good to see the general publics/players thoughts as well.

Just my thoughts on this. I hope we can get more people discussing it, and perhaps come up with a unified system.

Peace,
Sarrene'

[Slyde]

Excellent idea Sarrene.

I have considered contacting all the UI authors myself regarding this, because of the affect it has on my CustomUI program.

Sometimes components conflict with each other when users select similar objects from different UI's.

Another issue I've encountered is that some authors 'bundle' things together. (like the Main Menu and bag windows for example). I would like to see each component/window in its own XML file.

I would love to see some coding and naming standardization among all the UI's.

(FYI, last time I checked NONE of the UIs, including the Default, have a searchkey defined for the 4th raid window. I had to add my own so I could open/close all 4 from my Shortcut Panel button)

[Kyrenis]

I, a Humble user of the venerable darker UIs, would like to to say I support this idea. if we can win the battle with this imagine what we can get eventually? Yay Unification!

[Locte]

This looks to me like the community would really benefit from this and I certainly really support it.

I would have no problem at all going through all of my characters to set them up - if I knew that I could swap from UI to UI in the future and try out different UI's without much pain.

I am not aware who is the current author of particular UI's. Any chance we could have a list of the main UI's who is currently maintaining them and if they are on-board with this suggestion?

If they do not want to do it - could we possibly get their reasoning for not wanting to do it so we can understand?

I appreciate that it would also require work on their part and I already really appreciate the work that they have put in to improve the playability of the game for both me and others.

Thanks